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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Sep 8, 2011 7:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

Attendance bias in full effect here, but 9/8/90 was my third show and one of the best that I saw. This is one of just a few shows with Vince as the lone keyboard player before Hornsby came aboard, and the result is that the band has a little more space to move around. Vince sounds fairly tasteful in these shows, playing electric piano and organ mostly.

If Welnick shows don't make you want to puke blood, then the pre-drums portion of Eyes> Estimated> Terrapin (with one of the first really jammed out Terrapins) is well worth your time.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1990-09-08.sbd.miller.92241.sbeok.flac16

http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/44/44048/gdd9890maskskullrichfield.jpg

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Poster: craven714 Date: Sep 8, 2011 1:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

I have fond memories of this show as well. I went with 2 of my best friends and my (then) post high school sweet heart. She scored the first good dose as I recall. We
were all jealous. Some guy sold me what was to be a fat joint of pure oregano right before we went in (the bastard). Luckily, I had rolled a proper one of the good stuff with the words 'one more sat night' written on it. Yes, I did have to save it for the last song, but I felt vindicated smoking it to the encore.

I cant wait to go home and roll a fatty and listen to this again. The second set opens with Eyes. I knew it was gonna be a good set. The Estimated has it hands down.
Bobs wailing 'AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA'................'AAAAAAAAAA AAAAA'
resonated perfectly with the acoustics of the now defunct Coliseum. It pierced right through you. And hits me the same every time now I listen to it. The Terrapin is
one of the better ones, especially with the long jam at the end.

Good times and great memories. I have no energy to quibble about all the Deads keyboard players; they
were all awesome in their own ways. To itch your own...

Good call snow_and_rain!

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Sep 9, 2011 2:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

Wow, thanks for the first on-topic reply! It's funny to think about how little I really knew about the Grateful Dead and that entire scene when I went to these two shows at the Richfield Coliseum. I had been to one show at that point (7/8/90 in Pittsburgh) and really had no idea what to expect after Brent died. Seeing the band live was still new to me, so I probably didn't have as hard a time adjusting to the new sound as some did.

I had tickets to both nights, but as late as the day before I still hadn't figured out how I was getting there from where I went to college in southern Ohio. I lucked out though, because I got a call the same day (from a PAY PHONE no less) from a hippie couple who just happened to be passing through town on their way to see friends in Bumfuck, Indiana that night. I dropped everything, hopped into their car and spent the next 24 hours with a bunch of very enthusiatic and seasoned deadheads. It was quite an experience for my impressionable young mind. They kept referring to me as "The Rider." I don't remember very much about them except that they'd dropped out of college to "do the Dead thing" for a while. I do remember that I ran into them the next spring in the parking lot of the Cap Center. They were out there still selling jewelry or pancakes or something.

Anywaym, when I arrived at the 9/7 show with my new friends I remember being sort of panicked about finding my friends. In the days before cell phones, this proved to be quite difficult. I ran into one guy I knew from high school who was ingesting LSD at an alarming rate. I knew I'd have to get away from him, but he was all I had for a little while. Thankfully I ran into one of my buddies on the way into the arena.

That's where my memories get kinda hazy -- just as the drugs kicked in, I guess.

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Poster: craven714 Date: Sep 9, 2011 3:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

Good story. Those were the days...
Hey S&R, you going to this?
http://www.familyrootsfest.com/

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Sep 9, 2011 6:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

Nope, but I don't live in Ohio anymore, so that would be kind of a hike for me.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 8, 2011 8:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

vince is not worthy to have an era of the grateful dead named after him .....this time period is better known as the post brent era !!! baba oreilly ???? http://www.archive.org/details/gd1990-09-08.sbd.miller.92241.sbeok.flac16 heres a link!!!

This post was modified by RBNW....new and improved! on 2011-09-08 15:28:17

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Sep 8, 2011 8:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

I Will Take You Home!??
We Can Run?!?
Easy to Love You?!

Honestly I'd rather hear Baba. Vince had a lot of bad songs, but that was far from his most serious crime.

How about the Post-Godchaux Era?

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 8, 2011 8:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

are you actually trying to say that vince was better than brent ???? i guess you are just a white punk on dope!!! haaahaaaahaahaaaaahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! lol by the way brent blows keith away , too!!! sorry bout your troubles!!!

This post was modified by RBNW....new and improved! on 2011-09-08 15:38:40

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Sep 8, 2011 8:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

Careful there, you've got some puke-blood dripping from your chin.

Brent was a fine keyboard player, but almost all of his songs were pure garbage. That's all I'm saying you raving lunatic, you.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 8, 2011 9:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

raving lunatic? .....have we met!

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Sep 8, 2011 9:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

well, you did say that "brent blows keith away" so pretty much, yeah.

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Poster: Spiral Light of Venus Date: Sep 8, 2011 9:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

A) Brent was the best, no doubt.
B) Check E2LU from this show ~ very early in Brent's GD career but great performance (aided by the nice CM clean-up).

http://www.archive.org/details/gd79-12-11.sbd.miller.32058.sbeok.flacf

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Sep 8, 2011 11:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

Easy to Love You is one of Brent's best songs and it still sucks.

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Sep 8, 2011 10:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

If you're trying to convince people he was the best keyboard player you didn't pick the best song. I certainly prefer brent and think his keywork is unsurpassed, jam wise. He had much stronger an effect on the sound than keith did. Thats part of the reason many of us 80s lovers find him to be the best. comparing the two is futile though, they played very differently. Brent was just more essential to the sound and it makes sense why many others dont enjoy the 80s, because brent's presence is so much larger than keiths was.

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Poster: Spiral Light of Venus Date: Sep 8, 2011 10:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

Agreed on all fronts.

I just picked that song/version/show to highlight what I think was a showcase performance of E2LU since an earlier reviewer was critical of the song(versus Vinnie's tunes).

I think you can sum up the hot seat as follows:

Pig: Band leader with a heavy blues front; greatest gift may have been to cover Garcia as he warmed up to the lead role and developed his legs. As the GD transitioned from blues/cover band to psychedelic warriors Pig's influence began to wane (attributable to health too not just music orientation).

Keith: Good background role player that was well-fitted to the jazz oriented era of the early 1970s; seemed to drift off as they segued into the rock/2 set format that took root in the late 70s.

Brent: Stood on his own two feet and was equally comfortable with playing in foreground, midground and background. Could play a raunchy blues foil to Bobby and a strong/capable but "background" companion to Jerry on back-to-back songs.

Vince: Crime here was band rushed to make a pick and he was put in a position like a newborn trying to learn to waterski behind a cigarette boat. Feel bad for how he is remembered/judged (though I can't disagree as I didn't like many of his songs). When they nailed it I thought Baba was great, just like a rocking Gloria from Bobby.

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Poster: snori Date: Sep 8, 2011 12:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

Sorry, but a rockin' Gloria from Bob is the kiss of death to a show as far as I'm concerned. And one of the reasons Keith is my preferred keyboard player is that he didn't write songs. Also I'm not as down on Vince as many here because I was a Tubes fan.

BTW Did you know there was a GD fanzine based in the U.K. in the 80s and 90s called Spiral Light ?

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Poster: clementinescaboose Date: Sep 9, 2011 12:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

Ah, but what about those few abominable performances of 'Let Me Sing Your Blues Away'? *Shudders*

http://www.archive.org/details/gd73-09-08.sbd.wulf.183.sbefail.shnf


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Poster: sjanderson82 Date: Sep 9, 2011 1:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

couldn't agree more. that song is THE PITS.

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Poster: sntb Date: Jan 6, 2012 12:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

Purely from a songwriting stndpoint,


I'd take some faux Rick Danko ("Sing Your Blues Away") over faux Glen Frey ("Tons of Steel") any old day.

Still, it is strange that they gave the new guy the second track on Wake of the Flood. Baptismo del Fuego!

And you know, the Keith and Donna album ain't half bad! A friend found it on vinyl for a buck. Jerry's all over it. Two of McCartney's Wings play on it. As does the baddest-ass drummer ever, Bernard Purdie.
Still, it suffers from cocaine lethargy.

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Poster: Spiral Light of Venus Date: Sep 8, 2011 12:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

A) I think I have heard of that fanzine but have never seen it. I need to look that up on the web....thanx for the lead/reminder!
B) Yes, Gloria could be a throwaway but I liked it. Have you ever listened to?: http://www.archive.org/details/gd1992-06-25.dsbd.miller.32496.sbeok.flac16
Check out the tail end of the show with James Cotton, maybe you will like this version, I thought it was blistering!

Cheers!

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Poster: snori Date: Sep 9, 2011 1:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

Better than usual, I listened all the way to the end !
Here's a link, but as it faded away in '96 it never had an online edition. http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~billpannifer/spiral.htm
The early editions were photocopies, but as you can see by the cover of the last edition it had become quite professional looking.

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Poster: Spiral Light of Venus Date: Sep 9, 2011 5:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

Thanx for sharing!! Played around a little bit on it this AM and liked what I saw!

I read the LA Forum 89 article; well written by an astute fan and it made me feel as if it was all happening real time in front of me. Almost Blair Jackon Blog-ish, if you will.

So familiar with UC, Relix, etc. it is fun to see the international fan stuff, too. Noticed a link to Franklins Tower wh/ I will have to noodle on, too.

Thanks again and have a grateful weekend!

SLOV (~}:)

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Sep 8, 2011 11:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

Keith was far more than a good background role player and was integral to the bands ability to have a jazz era.It seems that because his style was more about group interaction and his primary instrument was an acoustic piano and not an amplified in your face organ or keyboard,the contribution he made to the music is belittled.He was a key contributor to a large portion of the bands catalog of songs and impacted the band from the keyboard seat far more than any of the other players.Brent had more of an effect on the sound because the overall ability of the band to play their instruments,create interesting music and desire to do so was in a steep decline,lets not confuse loud and aggressive with quality.By the time Brent arrived the band had been gimmicking it up with gizmos and in a state of creative bankruptcy,so why not let this joker step up with his cheesy synths and keyboards,and have him scream some "backup" vocals.The whole band was is in a narcotic/alcohol induced stupor and no longer remotely comparable to what they were during Keith's tenure.

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Poster: Skobud Date: Sep 9, 2011 4:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

I think i agree with what you are saying - Kieth was able to drive many of the jams and take the lead as well. He was not just an accent piece. I ve said it before, I think the band owes a huge debt of gratitude to the Godchaux's...Kieth opened up huge new avenues for the band(that I believe were already there) but not yet explored fully. The jams really started developing more depth and seemed to be more develped.

When it comes to Brent, no one doubts he had the chops to keep up and lead. What i think he lacked was creativity and innovation. He pounded out the funky synth every night, but he was no where close to Kieth musically. His style was out in front and kinda in your face, and that did not really serve the band, creatively, nearly as well in my opinion.

Insofar as his tunes, while they kinda speak for themselves. I think he shoulda stuck strictly to the harmonies. He could get the crowd very fired up, but that certainly wasnt the case when he did his own songs.

Those of you that know me know I am a Brent basher at heart - but I still do respect him. I just dont respect him nearly as much as Kieth. I do believe that a case could be made for him being at par with Vince however, They both were doing more "filling in" than being creative in my opinion...

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Poster: clementinescaboose Date: Sep 9, 2011 12:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH - From the Dawn of the Welnick Era

I have to say I disagree about the whole background player notion also. Although I do like Brent as a keyboardist a lot. His songs are another matter.

Keith is by far the most underrated and under-appreciated GD keyboardist. He could play a much broader range of styles than any of the other keyboardists and could effortlessly switch between them.

But like Jerlouvis said, his playing was so well integrated into the rest of the band; he often goes unnoticed and gets lost in the shuffle of the dense sound the band had in this era, because his playing is often so subtle.

Another problem is he is quite often buried in the mix of many of those early '70s boards, making his contributions harder to discern, whereas Brent was usually way upfront.

This post was modified by clementinescaboose on 2011-09-09 07:12:18